Ed Burzminski
Welcome to more non dues revenue, a semi monthly zoom in our podcast series sponsored by chamber marketing partners, where we interview Chamber of Commerce leaders and visionaries to share their creative entrepreneurial strategies for generating non dues revenue. catch us live twice a month or see priors in man hours at www more non dues revenue. com.

This episode is titled is print dead. the relevance of Chamber of Commerce publications will cover four main topics. Why produce a printed publication? How to determine an audience and what’s your message? What’s the non dues revenue potential of printed publications, and finally, is print dead.

Our sponsor today is chamber marketing partners, generating substantial non dues revenue for chambers of commerce publications without using a turnkey publisher. The chamber gets total control full financial transparency and uses local vendors. Some chambers have seen returns up to 30% from their award winning publications, visit www chamber marketing partners.com. To learn more, and follow us on LinkedIn. I’m your host, Ed Burzminski, President of chamber marketing partners, connect with me on LinkedIn. And now let’s get started.

Joining us for this power panel discussion are CEOs from three very different Chambers of Commerce. Rhonda Zunker IOM is the CEO and president of the Bulverde Spring branch Chamber of Commerce. That’s about 30 minutes north of San Antonio, Texas, Having developed a long standing business relationship as a former vice president of a bank in the Bulverde area. It was a natural progression for Rhonda to become CEO of the chamber.

Steven Rozansky is CEO of the Newport Beach Chamber of Commerce and upscale coastal community in Southern California in Orange County. Steve is an attorney, a real estate broker, a former Newport Beach mayor and city councilman all prior to becoming CEO of the chamber.

Lisa Hermes, IOM and CCE he is the president ceo of the McKinney Chamber of Commerce in the northeast Dallas area in Texas. Lisa has spent most of her professional career in the chamber of commerce world. So we have a couple of business people who prior to chamber were business people and somebody who spent her professional career in the chamber world.

For full disclosure. Each of our guests have been clients of chamber marketing partners for many years. And I’m so excited to have the three of you join us on the show. So let’s jump right in. I’ll ask each of you to first briefly tell us who you are and the chamber you’re with tell us a little bit about your community. I’ll then ask you to ask you to answer the same question as it pertains to your specific situation. So tell us a little bit about your community, and why you produce a printed publication. Let’s start with Rhonda.

Rhonda Zunker
Hi, good morning. And welcome everyone. And thank you for joining us today. And as he said, the poverty spring branch area is a bedroom community to San Antonio, we’re about 2025 miles north of San Antonio. And we were a nice little sleepy community until

Lisa Hermes
Okay, Lisa, I’ll ask you the same question. Tell us a little bit about your community and why you produce a printed publication. Sure. Thank you and thank you for inviting me today. And it’s always fun to get together with other chamber professionals within our industry and be able to share. So McKinney, Texas, we are as Ed said, We are an East Dallas, but if you’ve been a part of the Dallas Fort Worth metroplex area, it’s a it’s a sprawling

Almost looks like one entire city with 7 million people, but it’s not. There’s multiple cities and multiple counties that make up our area. We are also a very fast growing community, we usually make little list of the top five fastest growing cities, we currently have about 200,000 residents. And at build out depending on density, we’re going to be to 400,000

we are median age is actually a young community. So it’s somewhere in the mid 30s is is where we typically see our median age for our community. So we started off, you know, we’re the county seat of Collin County, which is a very fast growing County, we border Plano, Frisco if you’ve heard of those places, Allen, also very fast growing communities. But we also as we grew, we started off more of a suburban community with people commuting into Dallas and some of the other major employers. But over time, as we’ve grown, we also our employment base has grown. So our largest employer is Raytheon. They have their aerospace, an aeronautics headquarters in McKinney. But we also have manufacturing, we’ve got financial services industry, so kind of across the whole gambit of companies.

And, you know, I know we’re gonna get more into this about his his print dead. And what he did not share with us I in full disclosure is that before joining the chamber world, in 2006, I, my background was actually in print journalism. So I didn’t know that I do have a little bit of a affinity towards rent. And I do take the Sunday New York Times in print.

But I think what we’re going to talk about and learn today is that people consume information in so many different ways. If you can put your eggs in one basket, it can’t be all online and can’t be all print. So is printed, absolutely not. It’s learning I think, how best to utilize it and in what capacity to utilize it in your community, to make it make sense so that it’s meeting the needs of your members. It’s meeting the needs of your community. And it’s also also helping with non dues revenue. So I guess we’ll dive more into that a little bit later. Yes, we will. Thank you, Lisa. Steve, I’ll ask you the same question. Tell us a little bit about your community. And tell us why you produce a publication.

Steve Rosansky
Sorry about that. Newport Beach, kind of slides in between, I think that the other two chambers, at least population wise were about 85,000 residents work and old community in Newport Beach was incorporated in 1906. Our chamber actually was in corporate PR formed in 1907. So we kind of grew up with the community. But it’s reflective of the area here. We’re a beach town, to a large degree, very focused on tourism. So restaurants, hotels, and things like that are a major part of business life here in town. We have a big Harbor, one of the biggest small boat harbors in the West Coast, which is the focal point in a lot of the community. But it’s an upper income community and probably probably a little skews a little older than your communities do.

It’s a wealthy Community, you know. I mean, if you don’t have a couple million dollars, you’re not buying a house in Newport Beach, basically. And these days, I live in the poor end of town, and I think my house is worth about $1,000,003. So you can imagine, but so yeah, it’s an upper income demographic. And then, in addition to the tourism, you know, we have a lot of professionals so tends to be you know, attorneys, wealth management, doctors, accountants, you know, lawyers, things like that. And then, you know, we have a good smattering of retail, we have a regional mall in town, fashion Island. And, you know, a lot of it, but in many ways, though, it’s a small town field here. And we like to say that we’re a town of villages. And, you know, over the years, these villages have kind of merged together and formed Newport Beach. And so, you know, that our and our chamber is reflective of the community. I think as far as the membership goes,

What is the publication? Well, the publication you know, we’re gonna cover it, I think in some of your later questions, but serves many purposes for us. You know, I came here eight years ago, we were sort of in transition. We, we had outsourced our publication before to a company that had just done everything. So the advertising collected the money, basically just send us a check and we really had nothing to do with it for various reasons.

gym workout at that point in time. That’s why we came to chamber marketing partners. But, you know, we find that you know it, whether it’s it serves as our directory, which you know, used to be just a little booklet and now it’s part of a magazine publication. It, we use it as a handout piece, which I think is important, and you can’t give out an email or, or an email or directory, if you’re standing in front of someone, I was actually with one of the general managers of one of the major hotels in town yesterday afternoon. And it was my first meeting with him, he’s a new, he just started in December, and I brought the, we call it the business guy in Newport Beach business guide, we brought I brought a copy and hand it to him so he can see exactly, you know, what we’re about what, what kind of things we do so it serves is that, you know, almost like a business card. In certain sense. We use it at events where we’ll put one, we do an economic forecast event, once a year, we’ll have last last time we did it in person, you know, it’s a little different than in California, things are not as impersonal as maybe, as in Texas are. But, you know, last person event that we did, in October of 2019, we had almost 400 people there. And we had a copy of our business guide at each place setting as a takeaway, and so something that they can kind of look through and know a little bit more about our chamber. So, you know, and most importantly, it makes money for us. So I mean, at the end of the day, we don’t, you know, do too many things that lose money here, if we can avoid it. So Well, thank you, Steven, actually, that kind of guides me to the next question. And we’ll keep with you. What is the purpose of your publication of your business guide? Who’s the specifically who’s the audience? And what do you want to say to them? What do you how do you want to connect with them? Well, there’s different audiences. I mean, we, you know, we have approximately 600 members. Now, here is a chamber. And so you know, when the guides published, each one of them is mailed a copy, all of our advertisers and many of them are chamber members, we actually open it up to non chamber members to advertise in there as well. So they’ll get copies of it, we print about 15,000 of them and distribute them to homes, as well as businesses that are not members of the chamber, obviously, but as a way to, you know, provide the advertising

Just a quick anecdote, a couple years ago, we sold the cover to a woman who she calls herself the healing chef. And honestly, she paid about, I think we charged $6,000 for the cover that year. And I thought, well, geez, you know, she’s probably wasting her money, I didn’t think she’s gonna get a lot of bang for a buck out of it. She said, she got more clients out of that she was so happy that she was thinking about doing it again the next year. So it really, you know, it really works, you gave her some visibility that she didn’t have in the community. She picked up clients, you know, based on it. And so you know, it, it checks a lot of boxes for us, you know, it lives on

coffee tables, and doctor’s offices and things like that, because ours is a is really a magazine that has a directory in it, you know, at the back. And so you know, it has a little bit of life past. Oh, you know, from the mailbox to the, to the trashcan. trashcan. So it sounds like it’s kind of a general purpose publication for Yeah, we use it for a lot of different things.

Ed Burzminski
Rhonda, let me ask you the same thing for your particular community. What’s the purpose of your your guide your publication? Who’s the audience? And what do you want to say to them?

Rhonda Zunker
You’ve kind of

decided our audience is the people moving into our community or looking at our community. So if a business is looking to move into our community, it’s a resource we we make sure that we include, you know, the housing in our area of our education sources in our area, we include things about what’s to do that we’re not a big tourist area, which during COVID, we were really excited that we weren’t a big tourist area, because those are the areas that have really been hit hard.

And we’ve been able to survive quite well. But we really kind of gear it towards, hey, I’m moving into the area. Back when I was in banking, that was people would come into the bank to open their account and they like, tell me about the area. So I kind of drew on that a lot. When we did our first guide when I came to the chamber, it’s been seven years now.

That was what we were looking for something that we can provide to the financial institutions to the builders and the people moving into the area, or that were new in the area. One place that they could look at all the different things, something are in

a lot of people in the United States decided to find us. About three or four years ago Carmel county that we’re in became one of the top five fastest growing counties in the nation. So we have been experiencing some major growth. Some of the old Liberty spring ranch was a large ranching community for many years. And so a lot of the old ranches are now being sold and being developed into higher density communities. And so we’re seeing a massive growth we’re we’re looking at doubling the size of the city of bulverde in probably the next two to three years. So currently, we have about 50,000 people in the 216 square miles that we kind of consider our market area. We have a large military population and a larger retirement area. So our average person, our average household is in the 40s, late 40s, early 50s. With this surge of higher density, we’re seeing younger people move into the community so but with that print is definitely people want something to touch and feel and and it’s been very popular in our area.

is in lack of is a central source of information. We don’t have a local newspaper, we don’t have a local radio station. Most people get their news out of San Antonio. So it talks nothing about businesses or things that are in our area. So that is what is really become a great source. We have several welcoming companies in our area that go out and do welcome baskets. And they used to go to people’s homes and do this. Now, they’re kind of a little different, but they still deliver. And they come and pick up cases of them to take out to the new residents in the community, so that they can introduce them to all the different types of businesses in our community. You know, if they have kids, they learn more about the education options out here. If they you know, the restaurant, we have a restaurant guide in the last one, things like that, that gives them a big picture, because in the biggest thing was the real generic map we did because we cover two cities, and we’re spread out all along Highway 281. So you have the old village of liberty, and then you have five miles down the road, kind of the business section of bulverde. And then another five or six miles down the road is where spring branches, but our mailing addresses kind of overlap each other. And so people get really confused. So that map in the middle of the guide has become people pick it up and they said, Wait, I need one of those books, because I need that map that’s in the middle. So that kind of added to this last year is the first year we’ve actually printed a printed map of our community. And it has gone over with a lot of interest because it was another print, everyone’s like, oh, we’ll just Google it. But being able to hold that map out and actually get a whole view and understand that, you know, where everything is in conjunction with where they live, has been really, really beneficial.

Ed Burzminski
So it sounds to me like your particular purpose for your publication is a newcomers guide, your your there’s a lot of development going on. Developers are big advertisers in your book, and you’re reaching out to newcomers to attract them to your community from quality life perspective, and reaching down to San Antonio to bring them up to your area and talk about Yes,

Rhonda Zunker
Madden, and with businesses moving that are looking to move into our area, we don’t have a lot of large business. And a lot of that we have most of our businesses are small mom and pops. But we also have businesses that are looking to move here for maybe 20 3040 employees, and they’re looking for quality of life. And this gives them a great overall look of our communities so that people know, we do have some walking trails, we do have parks, things like that. So we really highlight those types of things that people would be looking for in a community. And it’s all in one place.

Ed Burzminski
And once Let me ask you the same question, what is the purpose of your publication? Who’s the audience? And what are you trying to tell them?

Lisa Hermes
Yeah, great. Great question. Because I think we’re very unique in the sense that we used to publish a magazine on a monthly basis, our chamber actually owned a publishing company for a number of years. That was started back in the early 2000s. And then later, as we saw that we were trying to compete with where we’re a little bit different Rhonda, we have multiple magazines that are now produced in our community. We have multiple newspapers, that reach reach our community, we actually took a step back from some print publications, but we re evaluated and said, which ones makes sense for us to do? We’re spinning our wheels trying to compete with a monthly magazine that made sense back in 2006. But in 2020, what makes sense and so that’s how we entered, you know, our relationship. I had known Ed before words and other chambers where we we had published our own resource guide directory. I’ve used other turnkey type operators as well, but we kind of stepped back and said, Okay, what, what is the purpose and the purpose is to tell our story as our community, and that it has a shelf life of a year, so that if somebody walks in and they’re new to the community, they can run to your point, they can look at and see the health care education. What do we have going on from an event standpoint, from a community wide event standpoint? What’s the real estate market look like here, just all that kind of information that they can have at their fingertips. I tend to see it, you know, back in the day, it was it was totally our directory. And it was all about getting our members in there and connecting and I do think that that is an important element. Because of the components that we have online, or were able to update that more quickly, I think people really use where we really use the guide more from the the front part of it, which is the editorial and the display advertising and really showcasing who we are as a community. We’ve also used it, so we put it we actually deliver with a partnership with our, our waste management company, in our community. So we put new resonant bags together, that’s a opportunity for our businesses to showcase what they do and connect with new residents. And so we stuffed 100 a month. And in that bag, we include obviously the the resource guide, as part of that. But we also use it with our we work with some of our larger companies and companies that are moving here. And they said, you know, we’re trying to make, you know, we want to we want to bring our employees here to McKinney, and they want to know more about the community. One thing I really kind of wanted to talk about to make sure that we got across was how useful it was, even when companies of course, are areas a little bit different because we are connected with a lot of other communities like Plano and Frisco. And a great example of this was when Toyota moved their headquarters from California, sorry about that, to Plano, Texas, and they did community wide fairs for their employees and their employees coming in for this was like six months, they would have come in on every Saturday and Thursday. And we would set up our booth and try to sell our community. And what better way to do that than with a guide that you can you can hand them that information, which is also available online, all of this is online, but you really could have a conversation, you could like open it up, we also print a separate map. And that was super useful because I could get a sharpie out and start marking places and showing people where things were. And they could get a bigger a better visual. And so Rhonda, I think that’s a great idea to include that in your your publications, I think as much as I use my phone to give me directions of where to go, being able to see something in a bigger picture. And is is really important.

Ed Burzminski
And particularly with newcomers, if they’re looking to move to an area, you know, okay, so I’m moving to McKinney, or I’m moving to Newport Beach are moving to Boulevardier spring branch, there are different neighborhoods in those communities. So you can say I’m moving there, but where so you can highlight the different neighborhoods, especially if you include the map in a publication, you can highlight the different neighborhoods, and then have some editorial to talk about those neighborhoods. So people kind of get an idea of what that place is that the community is like, and what areas are like and that kind of stuff and focus on obviously focus on the positive parts,

Lisa Hermes
you know, and and the other thing that I think is, is he can really think outside the box. And I know Edwin working with you we’ve done some different things like we did a bit of business, a business guide, at one point, we tried that we added that into our publication. And we were able to kind of to play around with that. But we also started another publication. So while we, while our magazine or lifestyle magazine went away, we started doing more niche publications. And we have a Senior Services Alliance, and they audit their businesses that cater to the senior population and aging children of seniors. And we for two years, we tried to do a symposium, because we wanted to connect the businesses with the people who might need their their their services. And we also want to provide education and information to seniors. Well, we got nobody coming. I mean, it was just like, I mean, it was just a lot of work with no return. Now we do a senior resource guide, in addition, so it’s another publication that we produce, we do make some money on it. And it’s a way that we’re able to get the information in the hands of the seniors where they don’t have to show up at an event.

Ed Burzminski
So you’re able to segment your market even more and create a new publication to target that particular segment of the market and connecting them really so

Lisa Hermes
we added print back, you know, to our to our portfolio of what we provide and took away an event and added print to it. So it’s thinking outside the box.

Ed Burzminski
Ron, I want to ask you and then I’ll ask the others too. With printed publications, a business directory. I mean, this just kind of came up for me, I thought printed publications. A directory is kind of a dinosaur just a directory in and of itself. So a lot of chambers that produce publications, particularly those who do it themselves. They fall into the trap of picking up content from the prior edition and just tweaking it. You know, we just, we’ll just do what we did last year and we’ll do it again. What’s your strategy for keeping the editorial fresh and relevant in your guide each time

Rhonda Zunker
Well, and we have been a little guilty of that. But we try to make sure that throughout the year, we look at what questions do we get a lot at the chamber office? What questions or what new developments what new, we just like, this past year, we got our for about two years ago, we got our very first apartment complex. Out here, we have all of these single family homes and I think over 92% are owner occupied. So no duplexes, no apartments, nothing. So we finally got our first apartment complex that was coming in. And so we made a big splash about that, because we wanted to let people know now there was that option out here, which a lot of people didn’t know about. So we had our senior. We have a senior housing unit that came in this last year. And we kind of highlighted that we usually throughout the year look at you know, what are some major things that have changed out here? What are some major things that we get a lot of questions about or that have changed, and try to incorporate the eight that into it, or, a couple of times, we’ve highlighted our we have a state park that is just on the outskirts of our area. That is that is a wonderful feature out here. We have Natural Bridge caverns, which is a wonderful feature. They’re both on the outskirts, so we kind of have added each year, something a little different this last year, we added the restaurant guide, couple of years before that we had added more of the tourist top 10 things to do here in our community. So it’s just kind of the questions that we get throughout the year that people are asking us or coming to us for we try to incorporate that into the guide for the next year.

Ed Burzminski
Steve, same question to you, how do you keep the content of your guide every year relevant and updated? What do you do to do that?

Steve Rosansky
So we actually hire? Well, in the past, it’s been a local woman here is kind of well connected in the community to write a couple of articles for you. And they’re always new articles that mean, it revolves around things that happened here in Newport Beach. So whether it’s a real estate related article or, you know, tourism based, whatever it is, we you know, we try and refresh that. So it’s a brand, a couple brand new articles every year. You know, I try and refresh like the the line, little half page letter to the membership, you know, not repeat everything exactly the same. So it’s not like Groundhog’s Day. I mean, some of the content is because it is more reference material than not, I mean, you can’t really change that. But we try and move things around in the magazine, the look and feel of it. You know, even to the point where, you know, we don’t we move the sections around in the magazine so that they’re not, you know, the real estate’s first and medical second and third, so it’s, you know, it’s, I’d say 50%, of new content, probably 50% is, is, you know, a rehash of other things that really just are not going to change. I mean, certain things just won’t change. Sure. Yeah. So we try to keep it fresh that way, new pictures were very visual, and are, as most people are, and so we you know, we do, what, again, when we were having them, you know, we do a lot of events here in Newport Beach, and the chamber does a dozen major events, including a Christmas bow parade that runs five nights in the harbor. And so we’ve always hired professional photographer, to take pictures at all the events. So we have a pretty good catalogue of pictures and artwork to deal to work from or to draw on. And so we all you know, it’s not like, you’ll never get to see the same pictures year after year. It’s always something new and fresh. And, and so that’s how we kind of keep it

Ed Burzminski
relevant. Lisa, same question to you, how do you keep your content current? relevant? What do you think of as your as you’re thinking about articles and that

Lisa Hermes
kind of stuff. So that, you know, our communities are all dynamic, the community doesn’t stay the same, right? It lives and breathes, and it changes and that there’s things that are new and things that may, you know, like, may go away, you know, so the chamber is the pulse I usually has the pulse of the community. So we we sit around, we have an editorial meeting. And to your point, Steve, there’s the reference stuff that you know, hasn’t really changed as much. Try to keep that the same, but then, again, use it as an opportunity to tell our community story. And so they we can highlight different aspects of that as we know that new things are coming online or there’s something you know, like a word talks about healthcare. So obviously, we wouldn’t have the reference material so you know, where the hospitals are, and where are they located and where’s the emergency rooms and all those kinds of things that are are relevant to people who are new to the community or may have been here. And there’s new new hospitals that have been built, that we all want to say, Well, how do we highlight that with a wellness opportunities, because we’re seeing that interesting industry grow, and it fits in with health care. So we start really thinking outside the box. And, Steve, I think your point about the visuals is so important. And I think that’s what, when you talk about print, I think that’s the the piece of print that is important and why it isn’t going to die. Because it gives you an opportunity to aesthetically put a visual of your community together, and in a way that you can’t do an online. Online, obviously, we, we we run three different websites. So we think it’s important, we think that’s, that’s a huge critical component to our communications efforts. But that printed piece really does with twin infographics and the way you lay out your book, and you design your book, and the pictures you take and how you you showcase your community is just a unique way of doing it. And and that’s one of the things we do is we sit around the table and we say, Okay, what what can we add what’s new and, and we too, we hire a local writer. So we’re able to help employ people, some of our chamber members to be part of the process with us. And, and that’s one less thing for our staff to have to do is you know, we all have our plates are fools. So there’s, there’s lots of resources out there locally that you can, you can.

Ed Burzminski
So since images came up, I do want to just share for the audience, some of the images from your publications. I hadn’t planned on it, but I just brought it up. So I’ll share the screen. And then after that, I want to get to the question that everybody’s kind of wondering about is how important and how much non dues revenue are we generating here. So in the meantime, let me just get this, here sharing this so I can share? Can you I can’t see it. Can you guys see the bulverde? cover?

Unknown Speaker
Yes, sir.

Ed Burzminski
So here’s the bulverde spring branch guide, cover talk about an image. So again, Rhonda is attracting people to come to her community and quality of life. And,

Lisa Hermes
Rhonda, I’m gonna hop in my car and head that way. I’ll be there for happy hours.

Ed Burzminski
There you go. Another one here is Steve’s at Newport Beach, Newport Beach business. And you’ve got the healthcare industry. So you got Hoag hospital here. And you’ve got some of the doctors and officials at whole hospital. And this actually publication went back into sales during COVID and completed and delivered during COVID. And actually, all of you guys did that. So this was a overcoming our challenges together. And then for Lisa’s publication.

Rhonda Zunker
Oh, wow. Love it. So

Ed Burzminski
you know, something vibrant, something that talks about your community. So let me stop sharing my screen and stop share. Okay, and get back to this. So let’s talk about the non dues revenue from publications. You know, what’s the contribution? You don’t have to necessarily share actual numbers unless you want to percentage wise? Rhonda, let’s start with you. How, what is how does the publication contribute to non dues revenue for your chamber?

Rhonda Zunker
Well, it definitely helped this last year because we added the map and printed that it was a first time event and being that we didn’t know what to expect as far as ad sales would go and everything that added a net. It was it was between 13 and 15,000. That that added to us. And that was a nice little boost. Our regular publication, we were down in ad sales, which we we what we budgeted for, based on the fact that it was COVID we weren’t really going to push the Community Guide this year we were going to look at just maybe putting it off. Well, the advertisers were calling us going did I miss out did I What did I How did I miss that y’all are falling ads for the Community Guide this year. So we decided to go ahead and do it and set a low threshold enough to where we’d make some money but weren’t, you know, just really going out full steam on it. And we oversold our goal by over 10,000 so we did really well with it this year. I think we netted around 16 18,000 it’s not our biggest fundraiser but for our small mom and pop businesses. It’s really tough. I would love to have a big hospital in my area that would come and cough up money to be my front cover. Kind of a story in that is since day one a small Pet Grooming pet kennel pet training area out here, has bought the inside front cover both first the inside cover and the next page for the last well, six, seven years that we’ve been doing the guide, and he just thinks that’s the best thing. And I told him Well, why don’t we split that advertising and produce some online and some there? Nope, I want to be in your print publication. I don’t care about that online stuff. And again, that’s a lot based on age wise out here. And that’s where we find a lot is that people are really interested in getting that physical book that they can put their hands on. So but yes, I wanted to share our neighbor down the road. Now we do contract out because we don’t really have anyone immediately here in our community that does publications like this. We have some printers that we’ve used recently in the area. But Maggie has one of my partner chambers right down the road here in in the shirt, scible area, she does hers more in house, she has a bigger staff and and they have a lot of hotels in their area. And they get a lot of hot tax money to put out a publication. And she was showing that she’s netting about 40,000 on hers after delivery. They’re mailing out like 18,000 of them to people in the community. And they’re still netting about 40,000. And for their map, they netted around 40,000 also, and they printed one this last year. So they’re using you know a different method of doing it. But I don’t have the expertise, I don’t have the knowledge and I don’t have people that are right here in our community that we would want to use. So it’s been a blessing to partner with. with Ed and Chris and Scott in their team. They are our members out here love working with them in the back office. And it’s been a blessing and we’ve really appreciated it prior to me coming and us pushing misguide we did the business directory where y’all the local newspaper did it. And they sold ads to all of our people. And they gave us nothing, it was just we got the guide, and that was or the business directory. And that was it. There was no no money for us. So any amount of money has been a benefit. But it does add nicely to our budget. So

Ed Burzminski
thank you, Rhonda. And I just want to tell the audience, too, that

Unknown Speaker
he didn’t pay me to say that

Ed Burzminski
they’re sharing about chamber marketing bars. But this isn’t about us. This is really about the value of printed publications to these chambers and sharing information with you about how they’re working and how they’re generating non dues revenue. Thank you, Ron, I very much appreciate that. But, Steve, how important is the non dues revenue from the publication to your chamber? What does it contribute? And, you know, how does it fit in for your budgeting?

Steve Rosansky
It’s Well, I mean, I’ll put some numbers on it, we sell about, I think this last year was close to 60,000 and advertising and the guide, we probably did a 10 or $12,000 off of that. Now we do pay a commission 20% Commission on all the ad sales to a rep so that we don’t have to deal with that here. I don’t know if that’s how you guys do it. Your other chambers, but you know, I mean, the money the 10th, at 10 to $12,000 is not a huge part of our budget. I mean, we probably will, again, pre COVID, we probably had about $900,000 budget. So 10, you know, profit of $10,000. Not all that much money, but it does add to the bottom line, it makes it worthwhile to do it. It you know, the the guide, as I said earlier, checks a lot of boxes for us. So, you know, like when we made the decision to move forward this year. And then I talked about it. And I said well, what’s the breakeven on it? Because I wasn’t even sure people would pay, you know, wasn’t back in April when we were shutting down. And I’m thinking like, Who am I gonna sell ads to these restaurants are closed and these hotels, I still have a hotel in town and hasn’t reopened yet. So who are we going to sell the you know, these ads to but again, people were calling and we had some pre COVID commitments are ready. And so I said, Well, if we can at least just breakeven on the thing, let’s go ahead and do it. And as it turned out, we did pretty okay on and I’m very pleased with the result. So, you know, as long as it’s a minimal effort on our part, you know, the money is obviously important, but not the most important thing. But I think in the six or seven years I’ve been involved with it, we’ve never lost money on it. We’ve always made money. So you know,

Ed Burzminski
Lisa, how about you? How important is the non dues revenue contribution? How does it fit in? And if you can’t, or share what how much does it generate for

Lisa Hermes
you? I’m so so any non dues revenue income is more than welcome at our Chamber of Commerce. So last year I looked at I was looking at our numbers from 20 20 in the way ours, we publish the beginning of 2020. So the these numbers would have been more reflective of people securing ads in 2019 that we netted, we were a little over was like 73,000 in income, but the net was about 14,000. And some change. This year, as we talked about, we were kind of in the same boat as both of you. And you were saying, do we go? What are people going to spend money? What is the temperature like out there in our economy, and we’re actually over budget right now, in ad sales, I was very pleased to see the the number and so and we’re not done yet. So I think this year is going to actually be more profitable. And when I looked at across the board, so I, when I think of our non dues revenue from print, I include the community resource guide, which is our largest one, that’s like I said, last year was about 14,000. So that’s somewhere in that ballpark, our map will met anywhere between about 65 to 10,000 a year, and that we use a different company. And they do a turnkey operation. So they have a person who comes in and sells and there’s very minimal work to our staff. So while we could take that on in house, that’s also adding more to my staff, and I have them focused on other areas of things that we’re working on at the chamber. So we felt like bringing in an outside company that we know and trust is good. And our senior resource guide is probably the one that makes the least amount of money, but it helps to generate new members. Right. So and all of these actually do. So there’s the it last year, our senior resource guide, met at about almost 4000. So not it’s not I mean, like I said, I will take all of that. But I think there’s a hard amount of the dollars that come in. But then I also think about what else that we’re getting from that. Because when I’m going and talking to a large company that’s looking to up, you know, they want to know what we provide as a service to to them. And their HR department says I need lots of community resource guides, because I’m not coming to your weekly networking event. I’m trying to get my I’m trying to get employees here and find places for them. So they see that as a resource. And so they they up their membership with us, and they find value in it. So there’s I think there’s like the, you know, what you make, and then there’s also the ancillary income that you could potentially make, because you’re adding so much value to, to your community and to your members.

Ed Burzminski
So you touched on something that I just made me think of, since each of you are doing your publication, quote, unquote, in house using a project management company. So the revenue is coming to you guys. The ad sales revenue is coming to you guys, rather than to an outside publisher. Have you How have you? Or have you been able to leverage membership levels or president circle or Chairman circle to layer in ADS into those sponsorships? So that there’s not, you know, going into their pockets multiple times throughout the year? Have any of you been able to leverage an ad into your chairman’s circle or sponsorship levels? Lisa?

Lisa Hermes
Is Yes, I’m happy to take this on. And so our highest level of membership at our chamber is 10,000. And that’s our chairman circle. And part of the package is that we have in our, in the section that’s about business, we give them an opportunity to have a picture and a write up. So that’s part of it’s not I guess, it is like an advertisement, right? They can still purchase an ad on top of that, and some do they choose to do so. But that’s also layered into the guide. Because we also see it as it’s telling the story of our business community because those who are investing at the highest level, both our chairman circle at 10,000. And then our sustaining partners that are 5500 are all they also get a smaller write up in a smaller picture, but they’re also in involved in that and I think it also shows the vibrancy of our of our community. In addition to it helps to sell that membership at a higher level.

Ed Burzminski
Rhonda, how about you?

Rhonda Zunker
Me, there we go. And we have tiered levels and each level comes with certain amount of dollars that are allotted for advertising, and dollars allotted for sponsorship. So those are kind of my giveaways. And there’s a couple of them that go ahead and commit at the beginning of the year for the for the membership level, because they know they’re going to do a Community Guide and they just get some other perks along with it. So they go ahead and commit and put that money in. So, yes, it does help with kind of maintaining and developing those relationships, because they’re looking at it going, Well, if I’m going to give you this money throughout the year, and it makes it so much nicer, because I don’t have to go and ask for more money each time, we get them to commit upfront, our top level is our platinum, and it’s 10,500 or 750, this year, and they get like 2400 and advertising dollars that they can use however they want to throughout the year. And so most of them are doing a full page ad in the guide, and that’s taking 1000 of that money already. So that that just opens it up. And then it’s easier when we have something else come up, I just call it say, hey, you want to use $500 of that money for this or that and, and it works out well. So it has added a benefit for members to come into some of those levels. Plus, we feature a page that just features are our top advertisers or top sponsors.

Ed Burzminski
Make sense? Steve, I’ll ask you the same question, then I see that there are questions coming up on the q&a. So Steve, you have you been able to include advertising as part of your sponsorship levels or membership levels?

Steve Rosansky
You know, we don’t do that, actually. And only because many of them are like we have a leadership circle as well, our our top level now actually is 20,000. Or let’s sit number at 15,010 and five, but, and I thought about offering that as part of it. But frankly, many of them are your advertising. So they cut right another check for it. So I’d be the sense cannibalizing something we already have not to say that we don’t discuss it. And that may be something we’ll do in the future. We do put our leadership circle masthead, we take a full page in the guide to feature all the logos of leadership circle members so that they do even if they don’t by now, they’re still represented there. And that’s how we deal with that.

Ed Burzminski
Okay. Thanks for that. You guys. It looks like we’ve got some questions. We have Judy Hayes helping us with the questions. Judy, let’s switch to q&a. Can you help us with the questions, Judy? Have some coming up?

Unknown Speaker
Absolutely. Um, could the panelists address the question of ad tracking? And the ROI?

Ed Burzminski
ad tracking? And how do

Rhonda Zunker
you how do you justify a return on the investment through the ad tracking? That’s a really

Lisa Hermes
great question. Because to be honest with you, I don’t know that we really have a good system of how we say you are getting this much in investment. A lot of it’s more anecdotal like testimonials of people who have purchased ads and been been able to share that that the their return on investment. And what I find it really interesting is I think it’s more difficult with print, and maybe somebody has a better solution that they could share with us. I find interesting his contract online advertising, right clicks and things like that. And yet, the online is harder to sell than the print. Mm hmm. And that’s been our experience. I can say how many unique visitors I’ve had on our website, I can say how many impressions I can say how many click throughs. And we still find that people prefer the print. And I don’t have a hard number to say, I can tell you where we’re distributing them. I can’t tell you how many I can tell it, you know, I can I can share all of that. But yeah, so if somebody has another a better answer than me, please chime in.

Rhonda Zunker
Now, we’ve had that same question. And we’ve had a couple of them that have put a comment on their ad, saying that if you share that you got this, you saw this ad in the guide, you get 10% off or whatever. And we’ve had a couple of them do that. But the majority of them don’t. And most of them, you know that they understand that you’ve got to see something more than one time before you’re going to act on by on it. And they realize that it’s just one more in their, in their whole package of a marketing and advertising that it’s out there with. So we haven’t really had anyone that a couple that have said, Oh well, nobody ever saw my ad there. And you know, I didn’t get anything from it not renew, but they’re ones that advertised in one place. And that’s it. So it’s really we promoted as part of their marketing package as one more place that they’re going to get in front of newcomers coming into the community.

Ed Burzminski
Steve, your thoughts?

Steve Rosansky
Yeah, I mean, I agree with the other two I don’t we don’t really have a good way of tracking dollars in your, your cash box based on an ad except anecdotally like I mentioned earlier, that lady bought the front page. She was super happy. Yeah exalt you The code hospital has it now, I don’t think they’re looking, you know, they have enough of a presence in the market that everybody knows the hospital. But it’s I think just part of their marketing program is to cover all the different media. Interestingly enough, in our community, part of the motivation is just so that others don’t get the cover and don’t get the attention. We, you know, we have, like four major hospitals buying in the last two years for eyeballs, and one, there’s one newcomer that came in and started spending crazy money all over. And so the other ones had to up their game. So literally, I’ve already sold the cover to one of the other hospitals for the guy, that’s not going to probably come out until September, and they paid back in November for it just so that they can lock it up. So you know, it’s whatever it is, whatever motivates them, it’s not always, you know, being able to track the actual dollars.

Lisa Hermes
You know, I like what both of you have said, because it basically, you know, like, Rhonda, you were saying it’s part of that marketing package. And it sounds like Steve, it’s the same for the companies, you are always going to have the company, we all know, in the chamber world, you have the company who comes in and they want to, you know, be a member, and they want to know, for every dollar spent, do I get $3 on my, my arm. And so we have to become business consultants with them to show them. These are ways you can engage this is a marketing plan you’ve got, you’ve got to have, you know, we talked earlier about is print dead? Well, you can’t put all your apples in one basket. So it’s about having a variety of ways that you’re getting your message out there. And we’re providing that opportunity to you. So yeah, those are the companies I think that really get it. And,

Ed Burzminski
yeah, that’s important, too, to know, or to consider because the ad sales people run into this all the time to Well, how do I track? What’s the ROI? How do I you know, and all that on digitally easier. So it’s important to understand that these types of publications, they’re not like ready to buy, quote, unquote, like in the old days, it used to be a penny saver or coupon type of thing, where somebody clips a coupon that come in, and you can track that this is more of an image type of by your, your presenting yourself and your business, amongst the business community of the Chamber of Commerce. And there’s a pin ash, there’s a certain level of pride in community that you’re you’re showcasing yourself. Now, obviously, you know, we’d all want people to buy a front cover and drop, you know, $6,000 into something like that. But for smaller business, you know, and they have a little more limited budget, a lot of the salespeople will consult with them, we’d love to have you buy a full page, but maybe you’re the key to advertising is spreading yourself around. So split the budget among different opportunities to promote yourself. Now they obviously talk about email blasts for the chamber and that kind of stuff to have different avenues of being visible. It’s like, when you look at that there are five Goodyear blimps up in the air at any one time, you don’t look up and go, Oh, geez, I gotta go buy tires. It’s just another impression. And that’s kind of the thing about these. Well, executed chamber publications are platforms for businesses to be visible among their peers. And it’s a visibility, it’s a branding opportunity. And those that recognize that, like, Rhonda, you’re the the pet company that takes a two page spread right at the front of the book. That’s what they’re going to do, because they recognize that that’s the branding opportunity. So it’s, it’s trickier with print. But it’s also more powerful. It’s, there’s a prestige associated with it too, especially among your peers. So I just wanted to share that. Judy, what else have we got?

Unknown Speaker
Okay, we have quite well, somebody brought up a good point, by the way. So I’ll just put this out here. We don’t need to respond to it. But they mentioned about QR codes that they’re making a resurgence over that it might help in measuring ad contacts, like people could scan a QR code.

Ed Burzminski
That’s a good idea.

Unknown Speaker
Another question came up is can the panelists talk about distribution costs and quantities, how are you getting these guides and publications out to customers after they’re produced? And it may be a COVID question to

Ed Burzminski
one of you.

Rhonda Zunker
I don’t mind sharing, when we do our operation, thank you with our members when our guides are produced, so we get one opportunity we get out to see all of our storefront businesses, so we have about 570 members, and about 350 of those have some type of storefront that we can go visit. And so it gives us an opportunity for our directors, our ambassadors and other business owners that want to get out in front of other businesses to go out and share and this year especially it was an opportunity in Texas. We are able to be somewhat of Open on the most current and facemask all of that stuff, but we went out and actually share it. And while they were doing that they did kind of a checkup on them. Is there anything the the chamber has had some resources with CPE. And we have some other stuff. So they were asking them, hey, do y’all need mouse? Do you need this, you know, is there anything else we can help you with, and gave back some great information. So we were, that was a good resource for us to be able to get in, we take just 10 guides out to all of them, and then ask them, if you’d like more, make sure you call the chamber and we’ll supply our doctors offices, or banks or title companies, we normally just go out and deliver a case or so out to every one of those because as they’re coming in buying a house in the community, they give them out, opening a new account, they give them out stuff like that. And like you said, what he called the table, you know, tabletop books. The other thing we do is our builders out in the community, we take them cases of them, because as people are coming in just looking at because ours is geared to newcomers in the area. They’re looking at, you know, if I move out here, what do I have to do? Who do I you know, is there doctors are there, what schools are available, things like that. So we don’t actually do a mass mail out in any sort. But the local grocery store offered me a space on the bottom rack of a free newspaper. And I thought, I’ll stick some in there and see what happens before COVID. And actually, after COVID, I could go by and drop off 30 to 50 guides every week, and they would be gone. So and I mean they’re on the floor, I mean on rack, but on the bottom shelf, and they were going now a lot of it was when we had we had a baseball, Little League Baseball picture on our guide the previous year. And it was very bright and colorful, and it had kids on it and people were just picking it up like water. So it it’s been easy to distribute. We distributed all of ours this past year, and didn’t have any problems. But visitor centers in my area. Put them out for us also.

Ed Burzminski
Lisa, Steve, anything to add?

Steve Rosansky
Yeah, sure. So we we probably have four ways that we distribute the guide, well, probably more than four, but four major ones. So we’ll give a couple 100 or however many the the cover sponsor wants and they’ll distribute in their their means each chamber member, so that’s approximately 600 in our chamber, are directly mailed to them. So we use a mailing house to do that. And then probably about out of the 15,000 I’d say another 13,000 are hand delivered through a distribution company that either drops them out of business, or drops them, you know, in front of a residence, and then we’ll do some like dropping of boxes to maybe 15 to 20 various places around town. So that might be like the visitor bureau office or over at fashion Island, so the major mall in town, or other places where we think you know, a hotel or something that might want to put them out or hand them out. And so that and then we you know, the ones that we can distribute, every new member will get a copy, that’s part of our, you know, our, our toolkit thing that our membership coordinator hands them out. So each new member gets one, we had another at our events, as I mentioned earlier at some of the events as a, you know, kind of an advertisement for the chamber, even though you know, people are paying advertising our God reason the guy to advertise ourselves as, as a, you know, important and relevant organization in the community. And so, so yeah, we got like a lot of different ways we put the guide out.

Lisa Hermes
So I’ll just echo I think, Steve, our distributions very similar. we mailed it out to each of our members, our advertisers get so many copies and then we also do the hand delivery. And I know Ed was clear to us not to promote chamber marketing partners but one of the benefits of working with them is that they’re able to not only bid some of the the distribution costs and mail outs the hand delivery with our own people in our own areas and our members, but they also have a larger network of printers and distribution houses so that we’re able to get a lower price point we have that ability to to have have more options when we’re doing that bid and so that’s been really beneficial. And Wanda to your point. We also give them out so we email all of our realtors in town and we say, hey, the guides are in you know, periodically we’ll say come pick up a box because they’ll take them to open houses. And then again I mentioned earlier we do the new resident bag stuffing that we see Though go out that in that way. And then it’s thinking outside the box like we have. We were the host of the NCAA Division Two football championship game. So it’s like, okay, let’s work with getting a copy to all the people who are coming for that. And now, we also will be hosting the Byron Nelson golf tournament. So just another avenue for people who are coming in, we can, we can distribute them. So we do the traditional ways. And then we look outside the box and say, Where can we where can we push this out to more people?

Rhonda Zunker
And ask quantities, and I didn’t include that. We, we had been putting 12,000 we reduced it to 10,000. But we’ll probably go back to 12,000. Next year. Steve, Lisa Woody, I’ll print number wise,

Steve Rosansky
we’re at 15,000. Okay.

Lisa Hermes
Uh, trying to remember Ed, I think we cut it down. And when I say Was it 10,000

Ed Burzminski
that we’ve worked 10,000? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker
I remember correctly,

Steve Rosansky
we’ll have one realistic. But realistically, as you add more guides, it gets a lot cheaper per guide. I mean, the you know, once you get through the fixed costs of it, the guide is actually fairly cheap.

Ed Burzminski
Yeah, the first one after printing press is the most expensive. The rest of them are just ink and paper. Judy had to actually move on to mobile, so she doesn’t have audio. But she told me there’s one more we’ll take one last question. This is coming from Debbie Hagen. And she asked Do any of the panels produce, produce your pieces in house, the layout, the sales, etc? So let me I’ll just clarify that the all three are producing their publications called in house meaning the chambers are the publishers. And they hire project management company to manage the project, but the advertisers pay them. And I’ll now just hand it over to you guys. So do any of the panels produce your public, your produce the pieces in house, the layout and the sales and that kind of stuff?

Lisa Hermes
We do not. Currently, I have in the past. So that there’s you know, I understand that that aspect. One of the reasons why we went with with with Ed’s team is that we didn’t have the resources in like I’ve done it before, we’ve had our salesperson go out and they published it, we had our communications people put the guide together, we did all the editorial. And in it, you can do it. But it just realized as as you all know, we’re doing a lot of different things. And so if that’s your area of expertise, you can go down that path. I’ve also used a turnkey publication where we gave up a lot of the control of edit some of the editorial and the layout and design, it was way more turnkey. And for us that didn’t really work. So having a hybrid of being able to, again, to work with Ed’s team, we have a lot more control, we sit down, we talk about editorial, and we have someone on our staff now who his skill set his writing. So he took on more of writing the articles so so we can kind of take on as much as we want, or as little as we want in this with our relationship with chamber marketing partners. So I don’t know if that’s helpful or not. But for us, it seems to be the best way to go. Because we get kind of the best of both worlds that we can have a lot more control of what the guide looks like, but yet not have to have all of the workload on our staff.

Ed Burzminski
And with Rhonda Rhonda, you’re a little different because you do sell your ads yourself.

Rhonda Zunker
We did. We did sell our ads. Well, I actually did the ad sales this year because of what was going on. It was easier but in the past years, we’ve hired a third party person to go out and but it was somebody that was directly involved with the chamber knew most of the chamber members and was able to go out and acquire the sales and had that build that relationship with them. But we do that but like with Lisa, we pretty much control. We work with the writers. In the past we haven’t had anyone in the area that really had that skill that was obtained remember and writing stuff. So we’ve outsourced and in the people that admin find. I would have thought the lady had lived in our area. She told me things about our area that I didn’t even know because she goes out and really scours the internet and finds out I was like where’s this place? I didn’t even know that existed. So it was great to have an outsider see our area in a different light but we have talked control over what ends up being said and done. So it was nice because she’ll send me and I send her people to call an interview and things like that. So, yes, we do it in house, because we have our finger on every stach stage of the of the game. And even when it gets down to printers, they might find a printer that’s a little bit cheaper for us. But if we have somebody that we really want to use, we still control all of that knowing what our costs are going to be. And so we don’t I, I’m only have one other full time staff person, part time membership person and a part time office person. So I physically don’t have I have no knowledge of putting a book together like this. So that was when we went into it, it was like I, I don’t have the skill set to do it. I need to help. I’ve gotten more confident in doing things in the last couple years. And, you know, talk back to christen Ed sometimes, but you know, it’s it’s a it’s a mutual game that we play.

Ed Burzminski
And, Steve, you have the capabilities on staff, but you, you do you don’t do any of that stuff on your own, you do a little bit of writing on your own, is that right?

Steve Rosansky
Yeah, we, you know, I’d say I do more editing, probably writing. So like, for instance, we’ll hire out the two main articles, and then I’ll get them and, you know, I’ll edit them down to whether it’s, you know, grammatical things or, or even just, you know, maybe the focus, I want the focus to be on a member or add members in, you know, because of, you know, why not, I mean, it’s free, it doesn’t cost us anything, the member appreciates it. So things like that, or, you know, usually we’ll come up with the ideas for the articles, and then, and then hand that off. Some of the more the more reference style stuff, we do the editing here, or just kind of, I’ll just take a day and just go through it, because it’s not my favorite thing to do, probably is delayed our publication in the past, because I can’t, you know, wrap my head around actually doing it, but but you know, so we do that we work with the team to, you know, get the directory shaped up to the point where we can hand it off. And it can be, you know, more processed into the doc into the publication. ad sales, though we generally don’t do, as I said, we hired a woman who’s done it for us for several years now. She’s pretty I prefer because I could probably sell the ads myself, you know, I know all the chamber members, I could start making calls and save 20% Commission, but you know, she does a lot of the follow up to she makes sure we get their copy, get the payment, this and that. And so if I don’t have to deal with all that stuff, I just assume that, you know, I’d rather just pay her to do it. And, and it’s one less thing on my plate. And so and she seems to do a pretty good job. Occasionally I’ll feed her a lead or someone say, hey, I want to buy an ad, I’ll say, Okay, well here call this, you know, our sales rep. So, it’s, uh, but as you know, as all of you said, you know, we like the idea that the money comes into the chamber, so we can control the funds, we do keep, you know, editorial control to the extent that we want to, and, you know, at the end of the day, it’s a collaboration and a quality product that we’re proud to, to adapt to our membership into the public.

Lisa Hermes
So yeah, we do that, you know, we’re very similar, Steven, how we do ours, we actually do have meetings with ourselves with the with ourselves, team on in house with the people who are selling advertising through CMP. And that’s been very beneficial to because, you know, they, they’re, we have new members who are joining, we know our members, but we just don’t have the bandwidth to do all of it. And of course, we push it out there too, when we’re meeting with numbers, this could be really beneficial to you, and then we’ll funnel it to the right person. And the other piece that I liked is that we hand so when a when an ad is sold, the way that we do ours, we have two salespeople from CMP. When they sell an ad, they create an insertion order that goes to our own accounting, and so are we invoice for it, and the payments collected, we have a communication system between the two of us, and then then we pay the commission. But what I like about that is that we keep we’re the ones invoicing our members, and we know what’s happening and we’re communicating with them too. And we have that as a record in our database and so you can really customize it again, I know and this is not supposed to be a promotion for you, but you can really customize as much as you want to do or as little as you want to do.

Steve Rosansky
We’re all expecting 20% discounts this year. Yeah

Ed Burzminski
well, that note Yeah. I have a doctor’s appointment. Well, like we’re coming up on an hour. And I just wanted to thank wrap up. And thank you, all of you for your time and sharing your information about these publications. Thank you, Rhonda. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Judy. I do want to share that our next episode on March 11, focuses on the selling aspect of both dues and dues revenue. Mark losh, from the Missoula, Montana Chamber of Commerce is going to share his really down to earth insights on effective selling techniques from his decades of sales training experience. And I thought his techniques would be really valuable for both dues and non dues revenue. That’s why I wanted to have him on board. He’s a very, very sharp guy. And I hope you guys can join us Thursday, March 11, at 10:30am pacific time 1:30pm. Eastern, I’m Ed Burzminski. For chamber marketing partners connect with me on LinkedIn, there will be an email that goes out with a replay of this webinar, so you can share it and I’ll also have the links in there of the publications. You’ll also be able to connect with our panelists on LinkedIn will have their LinkedIn contact information at more non dues revenue.com. And if you’re interested in publications, get in touch with us chamber marketing partners, calm, stay relevant and keep on making a difference in your business and in your community. Onward and upward. Are any of these things true at your chamber? Has the board ever said you’ve got to take the directory and house to staff sometimes say we should really just do this directory ourselves. Our turnkey publishers giving you grief or could your in house publishing perform better. We’re chamber marketing partners and we turn the royalty around. Your members pay the chamber directly for advertising their publications. We manage the project for a chamber just like a general contractor manages building a house for you. We manage putting a business directory communicate Community Guide relocation guide visitors guide map together for you as an in house project or chamber marketing partners www chamber marketing partners.com

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